7月15日，2021年第三期園冶杯國際建筑設計分享會舉行，來自國內外的優秀建筑設計師進行了精彩的分享。其中，扎哈·哈迪德建筑事務所（以下簡稱扎哈事務所）的Philipp Ostermaier先生分享了北京麗澤SOHO項目。近日，Philipp Ostermaier先生接受了國際設計網的線上專訪。
On July 15, the third 2021 YUANYE AWARDS architectural projects sharing meeting was held, and 10 excellent architects from China and abroad shared their wonderful projects. Among them, Mr. Philipp Ostermaier of Zaha Hadid Architects(ZHA) shared Beijing Leeza SOHO project. Recently, Mr. Philipp Ostermaier accepted the online interview of Global Design.
Philipp Ostermaier先生于2009年加入扎哈事務所，期間為各種規模的建筑項目、產品設計和學術研究做出了貢獻。2013年，他帶領了麗澤SOHO大樓的扎哈事務所設計競賽團隊，并隨后遷往北京，他作為項目建筑師帶領完成項目所有階段，直至2019年項目竣工。他的興趣專長集中在利用計算方法學來創造幾何形態和結構表現設計，其在中國交付項目的一手經驗也豐富與完善了這一點。他畢業于扎哈·哈迪德的維也納大師班，是英國和德國的注冊建筑師。Philipp Ostermaier joined Zaha Hadid Architects in 2009 and has there contributed to projects, product designs and research on a diverse range of scales. In 2013 he led the ZHA design competition team for the Leeza Soho Tower and subsequently relocated to Beijing to spearhead the project through all stages as Project Architect until its completion in 2019. His interest focuses on geometrically and structurally expressive designs utilizing computational methodologies. He complemented this interest with the direct experience of delivering projects in China. He is a graduate of Zaha Hadid's Vienna Masterclass and a licensed Architect in the UK and Germany.國際設計網：麗澤SOHO是扎哈事務所在中國的一個很有影響力的項目，在麗澤SOHO之前，扎哈事務所已經設計完成了包括銀河SOHO (北京，2009-2012)、望京SOHO（北京，2009-2014）以及凌空SOHO（上海，2010-2014）在內的中國SOHO系列。對于麗澤SOHO，扎哈事務所是否傳承了先前3個SOHO項目的設計理念？Global Design: Leeza SOHO is one of the most influential projects in China for ZHA. Before Leeza SOHO, ZHA has already designed the SOHO series which include Galaxy SoHo (Beijing, 2009-2012) and Sky SoHo (Shanghai, 2010-2014) and Wangjing SOHO (Beijing, 2009-2014) in China. For Leeza SOHO, did ZHA inherit any design ideas from these three previous projects?
銀河SOHO Galaxy SOHO ?Hufton+Crow
望京SOHO Wangjing SOHO ?Virgile Simon Betrand
凌空SOHO Sky SOHO ?Virgile Simon Betrand
麗澤SOHO Leeza SOHO ?Hufton+CrowPhilipp Ostermaier：從建筑設計理念方面，我認為4個SOHO項目共同聯系是它們與城市結構的緊密結合。舉例來說，銀河SOHO有一個下沉式廣場，工作時間后，它幾乎變成了一個公共游樂場，周圍鄰里的人都來這里，沿著大樓優美的外墻曲線慢跑，孩子們在噴泉旁玩耍。類似的情景你可以在望京SOHO或凌空SOHO看到。雖然麗澤SOHO的用地更為緊湊，但是景觀和中庭也可以自由通達，延續了這一理念。從規劃和建設的角度來看，不僅是扎哈事務所及業主SOHO中國，包括顧問和承包商已經從我們共同建設的每一個項目里學到了經驗。因此，我們從一個項目到另一個項目累積了這些經驗，并不斷嘗試去突破可能的極限。這也反映了過去幾十年中國建筑業的整體發展與崛起。Philipp Ostermaier：In terms of architectural design ideas, I think something which links all the 4 SOHO projects is their tight integration into the urban fabric. E.g. Galaxy SOHO has this sunken court which becomes almost like a public playground after working hours, with people from the surrounding neighbourhoods coming in to jog around the building’s curvaceous fa?ade or kids playing with the water fountains. You can see similar situations in Wangjing or in Sky SOHO. Leeza has a more compact site, though landscape and the atrium are also freely accessible and continue this idea. When you look from a planning and construction point of view, certainly ZHA as well as SOHO China, but also consultants and contractors have learned from every project we built together. So we built upon those experiences from project to project but also try to keep push the boundaries of what is possible. This also reflects the overall development and rise of the building industry in China over the last few decades.
銀河SOHO下沉式廣場 Sunken court of Galaxy SOHO ?Hufton+Crow國際設計網：麗澤SOHO中庭，第一眼看后令人印象深刻。您在分享會上也介紹到，“塔樓的設計將其體積分成兩部分，由一個立面外殼包起來。兩部分之間的空隙貫穿整個建筑，形成全球最高的中庭，高達194.15米”，那么在中庭設計階段，設計師要考慮哪些因素？在中庭施工階段，是否遇到了技術上的難題？Global Design: The inner atrium in Leeza SOHO is quite impressive from the first look. We quote your speech in the sharing meeting about atrium design, “the tower’s design divides its volume into two halves enclosed by a single facade shell. The emerging space between these two halves extends the full height of the tower, creating the world’s tallest atrium at 194.15m”. So, what factors did the architect need to take in to consideration in the design period? Were there any technical difficulties to put it in to practice in the construction period?
震撼的中庭 Amazing atrium ?Hufton+Crow Philipp Ostermaier：在概念設計階段，更多考慮的是人站在一層的視角，抬頭仰望的強烈印象，這需要與功能需求（立面、核心體量以及建筑外殼等）相平衡；在深化設計階段，關鍵是將這些想法轉化為基于材料和施工方法的系統，通常使復雜的幾何形狀合理化——這些需要小心謹慎地去完成，以免失去我們最初的設計意圖。從監管的角度來看，中庭立面最大的驅動因素當然是防火等級要求。施工階段的挑戰是，通過安裝臨時電梯穿過間隙、高度不規則的立面腳手架、實際的布置（如不同的樓層輪廓）以及現場各承包商之間的協調工作。Philipp Ostermaier: During the conceptual design stage, it is much about creating the human perspective from ground floor to create strong impression when looking up, which needs to be balanced with functional needs like meeting GFA requirements, how the fa?ade relates to the core volume as well as the outer shell of the building etc. Then in the more detailed oriented design phases, it is key to translate these ideas in material and construction method based systems which then often leads to rationalization of complex geometries – which needs to be done carefully not to lose the original design intent. From a regulatory point of view, the atrium fa?ade’s biggest driver was certainly the fire rating requirement. Challenges for construction phase planning was accessing the atrium with the installation of temporary elevators going through the void as well as the highly irregular fa?ade scaffolding and actual setout (as for the varying floor outlines) and the coordination between various contractors on site.
施工階段的麗澤SOHO中庭 Leeze SOHO atrium under construction From top left clockwise : ?Mirko Kirstein ?ZHA ?Philipp Ostermaier國際設計網：在您的個人描述里，特別提到您“擅長利用計算方法學來創造幾何形態和結構表現設計，在中國交付項目的一手經驗也完善與豐富了這點”。關于參數化設計，能否深入聊聊您是怎么在邏輯算法與現實使用之間找到平衡點的？您理解其中的關鍵是什么？Global Design: In your personal description, your interest focuses on geometrically and structurally expressive designs utilizing computational methodologies. This has complemented with firsthand experience of delivering projects in China. About parametric design, would you please tell us more about how you find the balance between logical algorithm and practical use? What is the key to your understanding?Philipp Ostermaier：我認為很明顯，首先要考慮的是項目、城市、業主、建筑使用者和其他利益相關者的需求或追求。由于建筑在其使用周期內可能會發生變化，建筑師盡可能預測什么樣的設計最適合利益相關者，在建筑使用周期內的需求。如果能很好地滿足這些需求，大部分使用者可能會認為它“實用”。參數化設計在某種程度上只是一種工作方法，可以創建一個試圖模擬和反映這些需求的數字化設置。然后，生成的模型和數據將幫助你將設計傳達給所有利益相關者，讓他們參與討論，并提供一個靈活、彈性的平臺，或者在必要時對基本設計范式進行更改。Philipp Ostermaier: I think obviously there is first thinking going into what the needs or ambitions are for a project, for a city, for a client, for the building’s users and other stakeholders. As use of a building during its lifetime can and probably will change, an Architect tries to make a as good possible prediction what design will most fit the stakeholders needs over that lifetime. If you match those needs well, a large portion of its users will probably refer to it as “practical”. Parametric design is in a way a working methodology to create a digital setup trying to simulate and reflect all those ambitions. The resulting model and data then helps you to communicate the design response to all the stakeholders, engage them in discussion and provide a flexible yet resilient platform for adjustments or, if needed, changes to the underlying design paradigms.
參數化設計時代下的北京大興機場設計 Beijing Daxing airport design in the era of parametric design ?Hufton+Crow國際設計網：人工智能等科學技術在建筑設計領域已得到應用，而建筑設計是一個創新力非常強的行業，您認為這會為建筑設計帶來哪些可能性？或者說是怎樣的改變？Global Design: AI (Artificial Intelligence) technology has applied in the field of architectural design, and architectural design is a very innovative industry. What possibilities do you think it will bring to architectural design? Alternatively, what kind of change happens?Philipp Ostermaier：雖然不是計算機科學家，但可以說人工智能或機器學習是一類算法，能夠解決一系列傳統算法不擅長解決的復雜問題，比如語音識別。因此，這些功能也可以或已經被應用于建筑領域。例如，我看到過生成部分自動化規劃的軟件，或使用傳感器或用戶數據的大數據集進行戰略調整的建筑管理軟件。問題是，它將如何影響建筑行業。舉例來說，我能肯定地看到人工智能的自動規劃已對高端市場產生了一定的影響，特別是在標志性設計語言需求較少的地方。人工智能生成的設計方案可能有助于進一步加快規劃階段的開發，但是模型需要輸入相關參數，并且需要有經驗的專業人員判斷結果、做出選擇并實際去執行結果。如果這些設計方案的實際結果特別有趣或具有創新性——至少對于當前的機器學習算法來說——仍將取決于輸入系統的信息。建筑項目通常也依賴于許多方面：官方、業主、建筑師、工程師、顧問、承包商都在價值生成鏈中對各個部分負責。這種協作設置通常也會因項目而異。這可能與實施影響深遠的人工智能解決方案相沖突，人工智能解決方案在單一軟件平臺上集成所有操作時最具影響力。總的來說，我認為伴隨著每一項新技術的出現，總有一種“末日”情景，那就是我們會被解雇。雖然建筑師和許多其他職業一樣，需要隨著時間的推移而適應，但我仍然不認為未來會失去我們的重要性。Philipp Ostermaier: While not being a computer scientist, it is probably true to say that AI or machine learning is a class of algorithms which deliver solutions for a range of complex problems which conventional algorithms are not adept at solving, e.g. speech recognition. So these capabilities can or are already applied in the field of architecture as well. I have seen for example software generating partially automated planning or building management software using large datasets of sensors or user data to make strategic adjustments. The question is then how will it affect the architecture profession. For example, I see definitely automated planning by an AI having an impact on the high volume end of the market, especially where a signature design language is less in demand. AI generated design proposals could probably contribute to further speed up development in the planning stages, however the models need to be fed with relevant parameters as well as require experienced professionals judge results, make choices and actually execute the results. If the actual outcome of those design proposals will be particularly interesting or innovative – at least for current machine learning algorithms - will still depend on the information fed into the systems. Architectural projects are usually also dependent on many parties: Authorities, Clients, Architects, Engineers, Consultants, Contractors all being responsible for parts of a value generating chain. This collaborative setup usually also changes from project to project. This stands potentially in conflict with implementing far reaching AI powered solutions which would be most impactful when integrating all actions on a single software platform. Overall, I think with the advent of every new technology there is always that doomsday scenario that we are all being made redundant. While Architects as many other professions needing to adapt over time seems necessary, I still do not think we will lose our relevance in the future. 國際設計網：今年5月一則“深圳賽格廣場大樓晃動”的新聞，再次吸引了公眾對超高層建筑的關注和思考。根據CTBUH的數據，世界上高度排名前20座已建成建筑中，中國涵蓋了11座，且有6座都超過了500m。而中國首次于去年就出臺了“超高層建筑限高500米”的規定，從建筑師的角度，對此您有什么看法？或者說，對您今后的設計會不會有什么影響？Global Design: In May this year, a news about the shaking of SEG Plaza building in Shenzhen once again attracted the public's attention and thinking about super high-rise buildings. According to the data of the top 20 completed buildings in the world from CTBUH, 11 have been built in China, and 6 have exceeded 500 m. Last year, China issued the regulation of "limiting the height of super-high buildings to 500 meters". From the perspective of architects, what do you think about it? In other words, will it have any impact on your future high-rise design?世界已建成建筑高度排名1-10（米） The tallest completed buildings in the World ranks 1-10 (m)
世界已建成建筑高度排名11-20（米） The tallest completed buildings in the World ranks 11-20 (m)
Data Source: CTBUH, drawn by Global DesignPhilipp Ostermaier：似乎這種高度限制已在北京實施了一段時間，隨后和其他法規一起在中國其他地方正式實施，我認為這個規定總體上是為了遏制不能在經濟上持續發展的建筑，旨在全面提高建筑環境和城市的品質和一致性，這點我大體認同。隨著時間的推移，我們將看到這一新規的效力，以及將產生什么樣的結果——畢竟限高重點是“不去做什么”，而不是“做什么是對的”。建筑仍將掌握在開發商、建筑師和規劃師的手中，我希望他們仍能獲得空間，去創造合理的、但又創新的、高質量的開發項目。關于限高，我們要注意500米仍然很高，以后我們可能會很少再看到這些建筑在中國新建。此外，建筑物的高度肯定不是最重要的方面，我們可以將此視為一個更加注重品質的機會：例如，進一步強調可持續性，為用戶的參與和幸福創造充滿活力、靈活的內外空間；通過將他們緊密結合到開發中來促進公共交通方式。 Philipp Ostermaier: It seems this height restriction was already implemented in Beijing for some time, then it got formalized for the rest of the country along with other regulations, I think this directive is overall meant to curtail economically unsustainable developments and aim to overall increase quality and coherence of the built environment and the cities, which is something I would generally agree with. We will see how effective this new directive will be over time and what results it will yield – after all restrictions focus on what not to do – rather than what is the right thing to do. This still will remain in the hand of Developers, Architects and Planners and I hope they will be still given the space for creating sensible, yet innovative, high quality developments. Regarding the height restriction, let’s not forget 500m is still very tall, but we probably will see less of those structures being newly built in China. Besides, the height of a building is for sure not the most important aspect. We can see this as a chance to focus even more on quality: E.g. further emphasizing sustainability, creating vibrant yet flexible interior and exterior spaces for user engagement and wellbeing or promoting public modes of transport by integrating them tightly into developments.國際設計網：您在中國已經工作多年，您如何看待中國的建筑環境與市場？在建筑實踐上又有何特點？Global Design: You have been working in China for many years. What do you think of the architectural environment and market in China? What are the characteristics of architectural practice?Philipp Ostermaier：中國的市場發展速度非常快，也給了很多建筑師建造偉大項目的機會，其中許多項目在其他經濟體出現是不可能的。過去幾年，政府的新指向似乎暗示，要鞏固增長速度，并更加注重可持續性和質量，這對于一個日益成熟的市場來說是合乎邏輯的。在建筑實踐方面，外國建筑師最大的一個區別可能是，在中國的建筑項目需要與當地設計機構合作，而在其他國家不一定是強制性的。Philipp Ostermaier: The market in China has developed at a very high speed and gave a lot of architects opportunities to build great projects, many of which would in this form not be possible in other economies. New government directives over the last few years seem to hint at a will to consolidate the speed of growth and put stronger focus on sustainability and quality which is logical for a maturing market. In terms of architectural practice, the biggest single difference for foreign architects is probably that building projects in China requires collaboration with Local Design Institutes, while in other countries this is not necessarily mandatory.
扎哈事務所和SOHO中國項目組實地考察 ZHA and SOHO China project team on site visit ?SOHO China
Philipp Ostermaier與與總承包商討論 Philipp Ostermaier in discussion with General contractor ?Felix Amiss國際設計網：麗澤SOHO項目，距今已經建成近2年了，能否與我們分享一下您最近正在做的項目？Global Design: Leeza SOHO has been completed for nearly two years. Could you share with us ZHA recent projects? Philipp Ostermaier：是的，麗澤SOHO于2019年11月竣工交付。不久后開始了新冠疫情，好幾個月內一切幾乎完全陷入停頓。從那時起，我們的業務非常繁忙，我們在中國贏得了許多新項目競賽，正在實施的有多個項目，并一直在北京和倫敦擴大我們的辦公室。Philipp Ostermaier: Well, we finished Leeza Soho in November 2019, then just shortly after the pandemic in China brought everything almost to a complete halt for a few months. Since then our practice is extremely busy, we won a lot of new work in China, have multiple projects on site and have been growing the office in Beijing as well as in London. 國際設計網：您在扎哈事務所工作，對于您的整個職業生涯有何受益之處？您從扎哈·哈迪德女士或其他人那里學到了什么？Global Design: How do you benefit from working in ZHA for your whole career? What did you learn from Ms. Zaha Hadid or others?Philipp Ostermaier：如前所述，很早我就被富有表現力的建筑形式所吸引，因此在維也納與扎哈·哈迪德女士和Patrik Schumacher先生一起研習，然后加入他們的實踐中，這很符合我的興趣。世界上沒有多少其他實踐能以這種設計驅動的方式工作。他們都是我的導師，給了我成長的機會，對此我心存感激。我也有幸與倫敦和北京的資深員工一起工作并向他們學習，他們中的一些人已為這一實踐工作了幾十年，由此可以分享許多寶貴的經驗，并在他們的支持和指導下獲得幫助。這種實踐也吸引了大量來自世界各地的人才，營造了一種充滿活力的辦公氛圍，在這種氛圍中，大家既互相競爭又相互學習。Philipp Ostermaier: As mentioned - I was drawn to an expressive form of architecture early on – hence studying with Zaha Hadid and Patrik Schumacher in Vienna and then joining their practice was well aligned with my interests. Not many other practices in the world would work in such a design driven way. They have been both my mentors and gave me opportunities to grow, which I am grateful for. I was also fortunate to work with and learn from great senior staff both in London and Beijing, some of whom had worked for decades for the practice, hence could share a lot of valuable experience and helped with their support and guidance. Lastly, the practice has also always attracted a lot of young talent from all over the world, creating a vibrant and driven office atmosphere where one would compete but also learn from each other.
扎哈·哈迪德倫敦辦公室 Zaha Hadid Office London ?ZHA國際設計網：近年來中國本土青年建筑師成長迅速，您怎么看待和評價他們的設計？Global Design: In recent years, the design works of Chinese young architects are growing in a fast speed and becoming more mature. What is your impression towards their design works? Philipp Ostermaier：是的，我看到了許多新的作品在涌現，確實發展得很快。其中有一些很棒的作品，在扎哈事務所的員工中也有很多富有才華的年輕中國建筑師。Philipp Ostermaier: Yes, I have seen a lot of new work emerging, it indeed is developing fast. There is for sure some great work among it. Also in ZHA we have a lot of talented, young Chinese architects among our staff.國際設計網：園冶杯一直致力于推動青年設計人才的成長。您對中國青年建筑師，有什么特別的建議或者期望？如何才能成為一名優秀的建筑師？Global Design: YUANYE AWARDS is dedicated to improve young architects’ thinking and creativity. What is your advice towards our Chinese young architects? How to become a great architect? Philipp Ostermaier：我認為成為一名建筑師就像學習任何東西一樣，對一個學科的興趣和動力是最重要的基礎。同時，你需要認識到自己的弱點，不斷努力提升自己。尤其是在年輕的時候，好的榜樣對于養成良好的習慣非常重要。可能不僅僅是那些“著名”的建筑師，而是那些專長于自己工作的人。所以說，也許將目標定成一個“好”的建筑師比成為一個“偉大”的建筑師更好。Philipp Ostermaier: I think becoming an architect is much like learning anything, I think your personal interest and motivation towards a subject is the most important foundation. At the same time you need to recognize your weak points and keep working to improve yourself. Especially when you are young, good role models to work towards are important to develop good habits. This might not always be the “famous” architects, but people who are just good at what they are doing. So having said that, maybe it is better to aim for being a “good” architect rather than a “great” architect.
編輯：liqing
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